Tuesday, August 18, 2009

Counter rumor: No digital?

When we are expecting some interesting news to be heard, two forum posts seem to suggest that there will be no digital RF from Zeiss. They come from GetDPI by jaapv and MoJo:

jaapv: "Dave Farkas has dashed cold water on this whole ZI idea on LUF. Apparently Zeiss went on record stating to him that they decided that there would be no ZI DRF. It turned out to be impossible to produce one at a price that would be competitive to Leica, thus making the projected market share too small."
MoJo: "I spoke recently with a representative for Zeiss at a photo trade show recently. He said Zeiss will NOT do a digital RF; he said that it would have to sell 10,000 copies a year for 5 years to be profitable, and Zeiss does not see the market for it."

So in the end what to believe? Only time will tell.
Posted by Alan
Poll: 

14 comments:

  1. Just to post what I thought:

    While I see Zeiss point (in the end dRF would be only a fraction of SLR market and the M9 looks just round the corner) I think Zeiss should believe a bit more in itself. Sure, they can't come out with a product that will be replaced soon or once every three years as Nikon or Canon might do, still how many Canon or Nikon users would like to have a second and lighter body with same FF capability as well as high iso or iq? Even among reporters, how much would be renowned a stealth and compact camera more robust and weather sealed as Leica has never been with the M8 ? I think that 10,000 people a year worldwide isn't a that much number to get if the product is good and a more affordable price than a M9. As Ikon has its strenghts against the M7, so might be the dRF. Of course Zeiss must invest quite a lot to have a long lasting product with no frills.

    Bottom line a Zeiss dRF IS possible but Zeiss must believe in it. I'm sure a good feedback won't be late.

    LATER ADD (after the possibility to post and to reply to the moderator):
    #1: M8 probably never reached 10,000 units per year due to the high cost of the whole system.
    A Zeiss dRF, although difficult to do, should (might) cost still less than actual M8, thus making it very interesting for photographers
    #2 Leica worked with Panasonic (no idea how much for M8 but for sure a lot of littler models were studied and designed together), I think Zeiss could do something like this (although differently, being different the profile of the two companies) with Sony. I'm not meaning to put a Sony Alpha into a Zeiss body but I'm optimistic about Sony AND Zeiss engineering teams to come out with some revolutionary ideas.
    #3 (even is repeating how much told here above) I still believe that the great point of such a camera would be what M8 wasn't able of (partly): weather sealed and robust body, high iso and iq capabilities. Photographers would like something compact and delivering.
    The alternative could be focusing on lenses only but it could be interpreted as kind of defeat for Zeiss, one of the very few (if not the only one) brands that ever produced something (lenses, for what I know) for its direct competitor Leica. Zeiss might take advantage also by the many partnerships on different levels with Cosina and Nikon as concerns bodies or required hardware/electronics.. why not in the end?
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  2. p.s. The real threat for Zeiss might be that the dRF could erode remarkably Zeiss Ikon sales... Unless they don't come out with a hybrid body (film/digital) as once Leica tried to do with R9
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  3. Another thing..
    while reading a comment of the brand new CANON G11, read what they say, and try to replace the name "CANON" with "ZEISS", especially from "..Commenting on his use..." til "..difficult lighting situations" a few lines below. It's exactly what I was stating yesterday night.

    This is the link: http://www.dpreview.com/news/0908/09081908canong11.asp
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  4. Sony a repris le SAV de l'hexar rf.... ce n'est pas pour rien!
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  5. I have a wonderful Konica Hexar that I love to use, but it is not digital, and I will not be hassled by film anymore.

    No one has stepped up over years to make a digital Hexar - Epson came close, but no FF sensor, so no go there. All the buzz about Nikon coming out with FX Rangefinder at Vegas show last year - all we got was some sad Blues concert.

    Now you think with Sony behind Konica's good name, they could have revived the Hexar. I would buy a FFHQ digital rangefinder in a heartbeat (especially in M mount), but that's just too much to ask for.

    With M9 just around the corner, it will be most likely a Leica that takes "a first" of a FF sensor rangefinder. All others seem to have missed the boat. Oh well, others can continue reinforcing plastic and increasing sensor size (from miniscule to minute) on next years eWaste, while I will get a camera that will be good for A WHILE. Remember, it is not how much you spend now, but how much it will cost you over it's lifetime.
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  6. This is not what I meant ;-). Zeiss Ikon series is only limited. Just for the prestigious ... Sony keeps alive Hexar RF to output a digital before 2011
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  7. With Leica introducing a full frame M9, and a large sensor compact X1. Also with Panasonic and Olympus with their m4/3 offerings. I can't see Zeiss staying out of the game forever.

    Zeiss has a previous product to compete with all of these.
    A digital Ikon to compete with the M9. A digital version of the Contax T3 to compete with the Leica X1. And a digital Contax G2 to compete with the Panasonic/Olympus m4/3 cameras.
    These cameras can be designed with Zeiss and Sony. Zeiss makes the glass, Sony makes the sensor.
    Its time for Zeiss to resurrect Contax and start making great cameras again. Sony hasn't offered any high end compact cameras in years, and the market is clearly ready for it. Sony made, Zeiss designed, Contax branded cameras. The time is right.
    ReplyDelete
  8. according to last post (counter rumour: no digital?) it seems that there will not be a D-Ikon because a new Cmos sensor was not profitable... but what about an improvement of an existing Sony CCD sensor?
    see this news:
    http://www.dslrmagazine.com/digital/tecnicas-de-fotografia-digital/sony-nuevo-ccd-full-frame-3.html
    ReplyDelete
  9. other source about the reloaded Sony CCD (SuperHAD II):

    http://photorumors.com/2009/09/13/new-sony-full-frame-sensor-ccd-superhad-ii-with-34-8mp/
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  10. Sony is a company that understands and think-very sadly-in production of scale so the idea to enter the DRF arena sounds allien territory not for the engineers but for their sales heads,also SONY loves closed systems which means all sony from capture to viewing and that market approach kept it out of the modern market functions,is too big to look in front of their feet and if they don't build one DRF with ZEISS soon they will be in the far out corner of photography AGAIN.From what i read SONY has some good sensors in hand and right for the job and for those not aware the DRF will become very big the next few years and LEICA will enjoy it alone.
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  11. I am a long time 5D Canon user. With the announcement of the M9 I have started to investigate RF cameras buying a used Leica M6 and three M lenses including a Zeiss 25mm (no Leica lenses yet).

    I am impressed and I am seriously considering buying the M9. I would rather buy a more reasonably priced, and probably more logically designed Zeiss, just as I wish I had bought the Zeiss Ikon rather than the M6.

    The type of photography I like to do requires full-frame and fast sharp lenses. Canon does great but the size is just too much. RF cameras offer the optical qualities at 1/4 the size and a fraction of the weight. Do Leica's have better optics - maybe - but only on a tripod taking shots of a test target. It is the full-frame and the f1.4 or f2.0 that I want. Small differences in sharpness don't really matter that much.

    I will not replace my Canon, but rather compliment it for those places the RF is more suited.

    Anyone from Zeiss listening? I bet many professionals would own a Zeiss digital RF for personal use.
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  12. Konica was bought by Minolta, Minolta was bought by Sony! Konica had a very nice Konica HEXAR RF, which has the technical capacity to be changed and turned over into an digital successor of the Contax G2! The next Photokina 2010 in Cologne will come for sure!
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  13. "Konica was bought by Minolta, Minolta was bought by Sony!"

    Minolta had the debt, and Konica bought Minolta. Both companies sold only their camera divisions to Sony.

    "Its time for Zeiss to resurrect Contax and start making great cameras again."

    Zeiss does not own the name or former assets of Contax, Kyocera does.

    "Sony made, Zeiss designed, Contax branded cameras."

    Kyocera is the parent company that made Contax and Yashica cameras.
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  14. My first camera was my father's Zeiss Ikon folding camera, some 45 years ago, a 90x60mm. I immediately fell in love with the incredibly sharp foto's it made and with the Zeiss brand. At this moment, I'm really looking for a high quality, failry compact camera. I have owned several RF camera's years ago (on film). I loved there simple design, yet having total control. No digital camera comes close to this concept, exept for the Leica M. But this is above my budget. If Zeiss could make a RF in a somewhat lower price category, I'm sure to buy it. As would so many others, I'm sure there are more of them every day. So this is another demand to Zeiss to think it over again, the DRF concept. I'm not a professional, but a driven amateur. I have a Canon EOS1 D and a Sony NEX5 at this moment (the last one I bought in an attempt to come close to the compact concept I had in mind - but I look at it as a temporary solution, until I can buy a good DRF). The last years I have been dreaming of the Leica M. And now, I'm hoping for the Zeis Ikon.
    ReplyDelete

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